Guild System: One Guild Too Many

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This has been a hot topic among friends and I. How do you feel about what has been said about joining guilds in Guild Wars 2?

Ideally, I want guilds to be much harder to create and for loyalty to not punish guild leaders. In GW1, leaders and officers had to pay for invites to the guild. That in my mind ultimately makes the new recruit more valuable than the guild itself. Continuous recruiting adds up in costs. Of course, if you’re one of those guilds who makes others pay (you jerk!) then this doesn’t apply to you. If I could have it my way, no one pays anything. If the recruit leaves, he has to wait a few days before he can join another guild again. If he gets kicked from the guild, then he can immediately join another. The reverse may be preferable depending on how you look at it, but this is not what this topic is about.

As we heard live from PAX on Saturday, each character will be able to join multiple guilds. The idea is that you can switch between representing each one which is beneficial when, for example, you feel like being in a PvP guild more than PvE that day.

I think GW1 guild leaders will have much to worry about. What we know is only from the recruit’s point of view, but I hope very much for guild leaders to have some kind of control over the matter. The idea is great and I actually don’t mind it that much, however that’s because I’m at the point in my life where I only have time to hang out with a tight group of friends on a voice chat server. I know these friends as if we went to school together everyday. I am totally cool with them joining another guild temporarily when their personal goals aren’t parallel with my guild at the time. If I rewind time by 6 years, then this would definitely not be an ideal feature. I need some kind of guarantee that members are loyal, so that I can feel safe investing my time to help others, and know that we are independently competitive. From what we’ve heard, though, it sounds like guilds have been reduced to being Steam Groups. In case you’re unfamiliar with Steam, users of the service can join (or be invited to) any number groups they wish to be associated with. There’s no sense of loyalty to a single community there. Again, in terms of GW2, players may join up with multiple groups and just reap the benefits from each one without committing much to any one guild themselves.

In the real world this makes sense. You join multiple clubs, subscribe to various magazines, take different modes of transportation in a day. More than half the time though, you are giving something before you get something back. I don’t see many guilds asking their members to pay regularly to keep their membership. That’s no fun. The most that a guild can ask of their members is to be loyal. It’s not that we cannot be friends, but I would like to know that giving you 10k gold is eventually going to pay off towards the success of the guild or fellow guildmates. Why is there such thing as profit? Profit exists so that people and organizations can grow. Strangely, as we just saw this works in a reverse manner for guilds. Most guilds. I don’t deny that there are those guilds who think highly of themselves and believe low ranked members should pay to share the status. In that case you ARE giving something to get something back.

So what do we need? ArenaNet probably has this on paper already, but I’ll explore the ideas in my head here. Leaders need control. I want the ability to define my guild’s charter when first creating it. The rules are parameters that new recruits must accept when given a guild invite. 6 years ago my charter would have said: “By signing this charter you have made a loyalty oath which binds all characters on your account to this guild”. Today I’m okay with: “By signing this charter you are granted the privilege of representing our guild as needed.” Of course there could be some middle grounds between these two extremes. This might be a little complex for some to warp their head around, but the game can simplify things for leaders by simply returning an error message if the new recruit cannot join due to existing charter constraints. In that case, the recruit should not be interrupted in any way. On the other hand, if the leader desires to change their charter for an existing guild, he/she may be asked to kick members until the new charter rules are satisfied.

That was all pretty technical, but back to the romantic side of things; It would be in my interest to know what other guilds someone is in. My recruits will be lurking in multiple guilds, so politically I believe I deserve the right to know. Okay, this could work. Wait. How about we keep guilds as guilds and add Steam groups?

To the readers: What are your opinions on the guild system for GW2? Like it or no? If you’re a former, current, or future guild leader, how do you think this system will affect guild loyalty? 

Peter Chan is the founder and web developer for GuildWars2Live continues to raise the bar on game convention coverage with its worldwide team of gamers and loves to promote other creative Guild Wars 2 fansites. Follow @Peter_Chan on Twitter for all of his real-time randomness.

Further reading:

  • ArcherAvatar

    The few details we’ve been given so far indicate a shift in “power / control” away from a guild and towards individual players.
    This article confirms for me personally, that the only folks who are going to have a major issue with this shift are power hungry, ambitious guild leaders, and control freaks.

    If you’re not concerned about how much control you can exert over other players (ie; members of your guild) then this change has very little affect on you.  If you ARE concerned about that then this change is causing you more than a little bit of worry.

    In previous games (including GW1) the focus and purpose of guilds has been frequently perverted, corrupted, mis-used, or simply lost in confusion on an all too frequent basis.  The primary (sole?) function of this sort of group formation should be to bring like-minded individuals together for mutual support in achieving common purpose goals.  Those common purpose goals ranging from everything between just an enjoyable social environment to chat in and share experiences in, all the way to extreme alpha, type A, hyper ambitious, raid-oriented type organizations where the hierarchy and agenda is strictly determined by the uber l33t.

    GW2’s social agenda appears to be significantly different from many (all?) of those previous games.  Disfunctional / flawed design mechanics that pit players against one another in the most antagonistic ways have been purposefully removed.  (ie; kill stealing, node stealing, “ganking” lower level noobs, and similar mechanics which are antithetical to a positive social environment.)
    The news regarding “Guilds” from PAX 2011 merely reflects another attempt on ArenaNet’s part along these same lines.

    Excessive control freaks and “drama” have been associated with guilds in general since their very early days in games such as UO and EQ, and have continued right up to the present.  Are the changes proposed by ANet going to change basic human nature?  No… but perhaps they are going to encourage a display of some of the better behaviors instead of the worse.  They can’t strictly enforce better behavior… merely encourage it.

    How does the proposed guild system encourage better behavior?  Flexibility and power shift towards the individual.  Guilds / groups with excessive amounts of “guild drama” will quickly find themselves with members who aren’t interested in that sort of thing leaving more frequently.  Why would they leave more frequently?  Because there will be a significantly easier access to alternatives. 

    Humans are inertia machines… it is easier to continue a particular behavior than it is to change it (just trying changing a habit if you don’t believe me, or talk to an ex-smoker for 5 minutes.)  Pressure was more heavily self-imposed on players to stay with a guild even if the social enviornment wasn’t very pleasant simply because there was little to no information available on alternatives BEFORE making the change, and also likely due to at least some positive relationships having been formed with other individuals within the guild which they would not like to leave behind.

    However, with multiple guild membership a possibility in GW2, then the individual has the opportunity to experience more than one “social environment” at a time and has a greater degree of comparison information to work with.  It also permits a person to focus their efforts towards a guild whose purpose/environment suits them more while still maintaining contact with those “good” relationships they formed in guilds they wouldn’t otherwise remaining in.

    In short (waaaaay too late!) anyone expressing concerns about “control” or “loyalty” with regards to the proposed guild system in GW2 probably needs to perform some self-examination and get a clearer idea of why they were associated with (leader of) a guild in the first place.  It’s easy to lose sight of (as evidenced by how many folks actually do lose sight of it) but these are GAMES which are suppose to be PLAYED for the express purpose of having FUN.  Certain personality types have a great deal of difficulty avoiding turning it into work instead.

    I think the comparison of GW2 guilds to “clubs” is an apt one, and a favorable one imo.  A club is formed by someone who likes something very much… so much that they want to create an environment where other folks who like that something can gather together and share their liking of that something with one another.  Control and loyalty only enter into the picture due to personality flaws in the individual people involved.  Provided focus is maintained on the original purpose of sharing a common enjoyment of something, then control and loyalty take care of themselves and never rise to level of conscious concerns at all.

    • Izziebytes

      I completely disagree. As someone who has run guilds in several games, there are a few key points about control and loyalty.

      I’m going to do my own post but in short, the guilds who have achieved the most have a very strict set of rules and heirarchy for a reason. Because gamers are selfish in the way they play , they need to be managed by someone who know how to be a leader. That’s why militaries are so strict when it comes to rank. If every officer has equal seniority, nothing would get done.

      Any guild that wants to have a chance at competitiveness on their sever is going to want undivided loyalties from their members.

      The issue with this system is that it allows players to divide themselves and split the loyalties. Which is fine if players are casual / social but a disaster for guild leaders who may want to try and be competitive.

      • Cosmo

        If you have a strong set of common goals, then players will weed out themselves. What is it better to have for a competitive medium?

        1)90 players with 45 that are casual but are friends with the rest in the guild, and out of the rest of the 45, 10 are actually into solid everyday-gvg’s, and the others are just ‘forced’/’coerced’ into the goals of the guild.
        2) 20 players that are in that guild for the sole purpose of gvg-ing everyday.

        I think option 2 is the best. What you ment is actually ‘undivided attention’, as in, for the players to be constrained to playing by the guild’s goals, no matter what they might want or feel like doing.

        If i’m in a serious competitive guild, then i know why i’m there, to play GvG or WvWvW competitively. I will be loyal to the guild and its goals because they are the same as mine. If i don’t want what the guild wants, or the guild needs more than i feel it i can give, then i will leave/get booted. All in all, you will have extremely focused guilds.

        If my competitive, no-nonsence guild says ‘tommorow at 20:00 wvwvw’, if i’m serious about it, i will be there. If not, that guild is not for me.

        • I agree with you Cosmo. Where I see it though is not a 90 player guild 20 GvGers and the rest friends of the guild, but rather 2 guilds: 1 with the hardcore GvGers and the other more casual. With the new guild switch system, the more casual friends can be in a more casual guild and still be friends with the GvGers. Likewise, the GvGers can switch over to the GvG guild when they’re focused. It’s win-win. No more guilds that are unhappy because half of their players are not pulling their weight or are not involved in the purpose of a competitive guild. 

          • ArcherAvatar

            Cosmo and Belzan; well done, well said.
            You’ve both expressed perfectly exactly the view I’m sure that the majority of players will have, or eventually come around to, once they are able to experience this guild system for themselves.
            For those guild leaders who just aren’t going to be pleased unless they are controling other players in Stalinistic regimes all I can say is, “Pick a different game along with the PvP gankers who are also designed out of GW2.”

            Many folks may not have realized previously just how twisted their game playing experiences had become thanx to the design flaws of other games.  I personally believe that GW2 will ultimately “open a few eyes” in this regard, and this guild system is just one part of the overall picture that will do that.

    • Should there be index for this comment? like “in short  Click here”  lol j/k

    • You obviously do not understand what it takes to run a guild. When you as the guild leadership invest the time and effort into a guild, you expect the new recruits to conform to the kind of guild you are leaving at end game. The other members of a guild expect that members will be there for them, like they are there for their guild every day. 

      I’ve been discussing this topic ad nauseum on the gw2guru forums, and it appears that the people who are against giving Guilds the ability to not have their tag dropped unless the person leaves the guild are doing so for 100% selfish reasons. 

      If a guild wants to be exclusive, because the effort that the guild leadership and membership is putting forth, then they should be allowed. Not have members join who are there when something is going on that they like, and then “hiding” in another guild when something happens that they don’t like. 

      When you join a guild and accept it’s charter you are bound by it’s rules. If you do not want to be in an exclusive guild then don’t join. It’s as simple as that. 

      I’ve asked for the ability for guild leaders to assign “permissions” based on rank, or guild wide allowing certain ranks the ability to drop tag or “guest” into other guilds for the social reasons, but this is only after they have proven they are loyal to the guild and like minded. 

      This new system if the right tools aren’t implemented is going to be hell on recruiting. Especially guilds that will be entering GW2 from other games already established. 

      • ArcherAvatar

        Conform… bound by it’s rules… assign permissions based on rank…
        (and last but by no means least) …”Not have members join who are there when something is going on that they like, and then “hiding” in another guild when something happens that they don’t like.”

        You have expressed your view very clearly.  This really goes for both Soulstitch and Izziebytes on this subject;  This is NOT a military, or a regime unless…. YOU make it one.

        These are games.  Look up the word;
        The definitions use terms like, enjoyment, pleasure, entertainment, amusement (depending on which dictionary you reference.)

        It’s been said but, is worth repeating; The only folks worried about this new guild system are individuals who want to exert control over other players.  They, quite correctly, feel their “power” over others is threatened by this more open and flexible approach to “social groups” in GW2.

        We’ve seen similar, very loud, complaints coming froming those folks who claim to enjoy “ganking noobs” and who very much wanted “open world pvp” and were not satisfied the competitive, “even footing” style of PvP offered in GW2.
        I have the same thing to say to the “controling” guild leaders that I did to the PvP gankers;  “This game (GW2) is not for that style of play.  There are plenty of other games offered out there which have the design flaws you’re looking for… go play those instead.”

  • I think GW2 guild system provide choices for players. Player who is loyal will be loyal no matter what. giving them choice to join multiple guilds for the community purpose.

    Well you can pretty much figure how loyal your recruits are from their actions. I’m sure guild leader or officers can still kick ppl out of their guild.

    I think, to be able to join multiple guilds give us more benefits (in various ways), but who know what’s more there in GW2. I guess we’ll have wait and see (as we did for the past few years).

  • I am personally a big fan of the information we’ve been getting about GW2 guilds. I like the idea of having several options for guilds. And that’s what it really boils down to: options. Guilds that wish to be more competitive and inspire loyalty in their members will exist. Their leaders and officers will create charters and rules to help govern those environments. Other guilds will also exist. Casual groups where people come together over a shared interest, such as PvE, RP, or “fans of Colin Johanson” who like to swing swords, will also exist. 

    I plan on starting a guild that is more casual where people who want to help others with certain aspects of the game can come together to do so. It prolly won’t have meetings, bylaws, or dues. I’ll prolly spot the entrance fee (if one is required) and it prolly won’t have a lot of the perks of larger guilds (I can definitely see casual players abusing guild storage). It will have a lot of people who are interested in helping each other. People who are rude, dismissive, and unwilling to help others need not apply and may be booted. 

    I don’t see myself being involved in a more competitive guild. I was burned by a guild with a lot of strings attached once before and I’m not excited to submit myself to more drama of that sort. Still, the option is there for people who do want those types of guilds. 

    GW2 looks to be more cooperative and less restrictive. I believe guilds will follow this theme. People will find the people they want to be with and join guilds to suit their needs. Some people may join one guild and be extremely loyal to it. Others may have guilds for different gaming occasions. Others may treat guilds like social groups and group with whoever they’re most interested in chatting with that day. Still, others may have a different guild for each character. I’m a big fan of options. GW1’s guild system felt restrictive to me. My guild’s alliance implemented an open door policy that let people swap guilds in the alliance whenever they wanted. Some groups of people are more active than others and some have similar interests. I like that I can choose between these options, rather than having to pick one guild and stick with it. 

  • Quite a few people are bent out of shape about the Guild system for Guild Wars 2. I don’t know if any of you played FFXI but they allowed players to freely change guilds and it didn’t hamper competitive guilds from being competitive or guilds having issues with numbers for an event.

    There were specifically made for end game events, social events and so on. A person is going to be committed no matter what if that guild’s goal matches there. I’ve been with that system for years so I really don’t understand the problem.

    Have some faith in the people you play with.

  • David Scott

    Little back ground before I give my opinion. I am a member of a multi-gaming guild we currently have or have had active chapters in most MMOs. With plans to open chapters in up coming games. I am the in game leader of our GW chapter and will be the leader of the GW2 chapter. COTP has a very strong charter that all members must agree to before they are considered members. The main idea before the charter is treat people with respect understand we play the game to have fun but that we all have lives outside of the game and that does have to come first. 

    Now I have seen chapters rise and fall in COTP and the main reason they fall is because the goals of the player does not always match the goal of the guild. I have seen many of good player fall away because the chapter was to PvP or PvE oriented for that players taste. This solves the issue when we have players who want a more PvP oriented guild we can have one that they could tag and still be a part of COTP, we are even seeing if we have enough interest now to start a PvP guild directly associated with the guild.

    This also makes it possible for me to leader the COTP chapter but tag with another guild so that I can run with the people I talk with on twitter and such. 

    This idea gives guilds more power to build up a loyal group without worrying about losing members because they also want to do something different. Key word here is also. Again Arena Net is trying to remove a hurdle from gaming so we can just start having fun playing.

  • I am a former guild leader for several years in SWG. My leadership skills have never been in question. It has been some of the best experiences of my gaming life running and/or being a part of a large guild.

    Usually I am a one guild guy. My loyalty is also unquestioned… provided it is earned. All this having been said, I am one of those folks who actually DO NOT plan on joining a guild any time soon in GW2. This is not, however, due to the mechanics as revealed, or anything of that nature… Instead it is simply due to my just being burned out on being in guilds, and the accompanying drama that inevitably attaches itself. This game is set up in a way where my needing to actually group up with anyone is going to be questionable anyway, and there is a LOT of world out there that will need my exploring. I fear I will not have time (let alone desire) to commit myself to any guilds out there. Perhaps down the road, when the world is explored and we are ready for the first expansion. Till then, if you see me, you see either a lone wolf, or someone who has chosen to run with one (perhaps 2) special people.

    In a way, I think the original Guild Wars has spoiled me that way… and no, I am not in a guild there either, nor do I plan on being in one.

  • Anonymous

    Personally, I love what we’ve heard so far about guilds in GW2. Basically, the short of it is that I don’t really see guilds as being very important, nor do I necessarily agree that guild loyalty is important or should ever matter. To me, guilds aren’t anything more than just social groups; it’s just a group that consists of friends I happen to play with. The fact that we can be in multiple guilds like this is great for me; it means I don’t have to worry about conflict between or find myself having to choose between which group of friends I want to be an ‘official’ part of.

  • I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this as I have really good friends on both sides of the isle on this. Additionally, my own preferences on this tend to waver as I’ve been both a guild leader, an officer, and a normal player over the last ten years of my MMO gaming experience.
    My first MMO had a guild system that permitted players to join multiple ‘guilds’ while only being allowed to sit in one chat at a time. When they felt like talking to someone in another chat, they would then swap their ‘tag’ to the other ‘guild’ and enter that chat. I was a normal player in that system for two years and then an officer of an end game guild under that setting in my third year of the game (Final Fantasy XI: Online).
    From my recollections, I remember the only time I really had issues with the system was when I moved into that officer position. Up until then, I enjoyed the ability to spend time with friends over multiple guilds and doing activities with anyone without concern. I had no set loyalties and no real set goals outside of just having people to do things with. However, once I was an officer and we were trying to decide on how to handle our loot and schedule, we found that we had to place restrictions on our members. And those who joined us would be expected to not run with any other ‘end game’ groups outside of ours.
    This insured that if they received loot from us (loot that we all worked together as a team to get) that the gear would then be used to benefit our team… That while the loot would reward that person for going with us, it was also in a sense, rewarding the entire team with making us stronger as a whole. Additionally, we found that when members tried doing the end game activities with more than one ‘guild’ – they were often placed in a conflict of interests situation, ranging from attendance issues, to deciding who to raid with on those occasions the schedules would clash.
    Sometimes our ‘guild’ would come out on top in the decision, and sometimes the other guild would. To the player, it was never something terrible to them. It was their free time and they wanted to just focus on having fun in the game. But to our guild, which was smaller, it often caused a night where we would be short on people and not raiding (when we were the group on the losing decision).
    So we made it a standard to tell people when they joined about our expectations and our reasons, and those who didn’t like it would simply move on. And those who said they would agree to it stuck around. And sometimes we would find those people going back on their word and trying to do things with others behind our backs, and we’d reject them from the guild. And perhaps there were times when we didn’t catch them and they got away with it.
    It was certainly frustrating and it was a huge game of trust and frustration because we would find people we thought we could trust being disloyal and running with others. But that was how the system worked and there was little accountability. Eventually there was drama relating to such an issue with a larger guild and someone who considered a very close friend and we ended up disbanding over it.
    We ended up in World of Warcraft shortly thereafter, and eventually I would end up as the guild master of a competitive raiding guild. Because of my experiences with FFXI, I was very controlling and put many rules in place. And because of how you could only be in one guild at a time, I was able to keep members accountable when it came to characters they had within the guild. However, alternate characters were able to be quietly placed in other guilds and so similar issues could arise with people having split loyalties. But again, I found that letting incoming members know our expectations was the best policy and those who didn’t like how we ran things would leave or stick around.
    The point I guess I’m trying to make is, neither system is going to be perfect if you want to force some accountability and loyalty from members. People will always do what they want to do and you’re going to have to trust them. It is my personally opinion that the best thing to do in any guild system is to lay down the expectations and guidelines to new members. And unfortunately if down the road you find them betraying the trust you may have placed upon them when they agreed and joined – you have to try to accept it and remove them from guild.
    However, for nearly a year I have been playing MMOs as a regular player. And I can certainly appreciate the appeal of playing in multiple guilds at a time. Right now I have several friends in several groups that I would love to spend gobs of time with. And I suspect they would like to spend some time with me as well. However, I’m pretty positive those two groups will not be in the same guild. And this system will allow me to play in both groups guilds without leaving me in the stressful situation of picking one group over another. In fact, the only issue that may arise is if friends get picky about how much time I spend with the other.
    Something too that I suspect may happen from an open guild system like the proposed one is the chance that servers will be closer knit communities. That of course also depends on how the servers will be setup and run, as well as if there would be something like server transfers put into place. Communities are stronger when folks know one another and dishonestly and untrustworthiness of players can quickly be established when a community is more closed in. That is – if someone screws over a guild group, the chances are the news will get out to the others and bridges will be burned. And I like to think that people being able to be in more than one guild at a time, may allow people to get to know a larger number of people and perhaps foster a better community due to more communication.

    So I suppose to sum up super quick (though I hope you read what I actually wrote) – The system seems great for the casual and social players who want to play with friends that may have different social circles or goals. The system may not be so great for those who have very set goals and want some sort of accountability system to help them get to that goal with others who may share those views. As of right now, I consider myself part of the first group but I certainly sympathize with the second. I think there is still a lot of unknown about how the guilds will work in the end and my opinions/impressions may change as things are revealed.

    • ArcherAvatar

      It’s clear that you are attempting to view this topic from both sides in a balanced fasion (although phrases like, “…FORCE some accountability and loyalty from members.” still indicate an underlying attitude in favor of one player exerting control over the actions and play of another player – something, I personally find distasteful, unnecessary, and counter productive.)

      I’m curious (this question goes to Izziebytes and Soulstitch if they are still reading too) exactly how much “raiding” do you think you’re going to do in GW2?

      I mean… there’s still going to be highly organized group activities (competitive PvP, and explorable mode dungeons) but those are designed for 5 man groups… not exactly the “herding cats” exercise of raiding in FFXI or EQ where raids could consist of quite large numbers of players.

      It seems to me that the ease of “playing together” in GW2 (without even having to form an actual group) is something folks might not be taking into consideration on this issue.  Ad-hoc groups form quite naturally and easily in GW2 (at least in the demos we’ve seen so far) and it’s clear that folks working together in the large scale dynamic events are able to do so without undue difficulty, even though none of them are in actual “group” together.

      I guess what I’m wondering is; Are you folks nervous about the proposed guild system because of how it will affect GW2… or because you’re still thinking in terms of some other game(s) you’re playing which incorporate entirely different systems and game mechanics which will NOT be in GW2?

      • ArcherAvatar

        I feel like Morpheus from The Matrix… trying to get Neo to see that the paradigm has shifted when they were sparring in the dojo.

        “… you think that’s air you’re breathing?”  *cocks and eyebrow*

    • I agree with most of what you said. I too anticipate people joining the guild and then having to micromanage them as people lie, and when we ask for them to be loyal they will say one thing and do another. 
      It’s why I have brought up the ability to add a toggle so that if someone wants to swap the tags they have to leave the guild. 

      People like Archer do not understand what it is like to run a guild, plan events, and then have to worry about new players who do not fully understand the way the guild runs planning something with another guild instead. 

      There will be plenty of guilds out there that embrace the social aspects of guilds and have no problems with their members running with as many guilds as they want to. 

      My guild expects each and every member to be there for each other. Normally we could just look at the roster when someone was on in every other MMO and we could see what new recruits were doing. 

      If they were off doing something person when the guild had a planned event, we could hold them accountable. 

      If players can just swap tags and “hide” from guilds this is going to create massive problems and force guilds to “big brother” the crap out of their people. 

      I am an old school EQ Veteran. The raids in GW2 were inspired by the raiding from EQ. It was all open world, but the EQ raids did not scale, and the bosses had loot tables which were distributed out to the raid that first tagged the boss. 

      While the game will have dynamic events that anyone CAN join, that doesn’t mean people WILL always join. So some guilds would like to have the people on to independently go out some nights and take the raid bosses. Sure other players can follow along and join in, but it will be the highly organized guilds that will actually be the deciding factor in taking down the boss. 
      This will require planning, and disciplined characters that know their class, or the entire game is going to have to be 100% pug friendly and require no real co-ordination to take bosses down. 

      This is just the pve side of why guilds will want members that are exclusive to their guild. 

      • ArcherAvatar

        Everything in your response reflects “old paradigm” thinking and has nothing to do with the dynamic events, or style of play that will be seen in GW2. 
        Loot tables… gone.
        EQ style raids… gone
        One guild dictating the outcome of a DE… highly improbable (for the simple reason that there will be many guilds there participating… these are not instances… they are open world, large scale events that will attract a LOT of attention from a LOT of players and guilds.)

        You are trying to apply old standards to a new paradigm.

        (Oh, and I was an officer in a highly successful raiding guild in EQ… you may not agree with my point of view but, please do not dismiss my comments based on “well he just doesn’t understand because he’s never done it.”  I’ve been playing MMOs for over a decade prior to learning of the development of GW2 a couple of years ago – at which point I went on hiatus from MMOs because, why play crap when something really good is just on the horizon…)

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  • I’m currently a fan of the joining multiple guilds. I do hope there is an ability for being able to glance at our different guild rosters to see who is online without having to drop in to each, as well as ability to see if a guildie is online but just not in guild prehaps even showing who they are currently representing  in a tooltip.

    But the biggest thing is the major lack of guild info atm and i will reserve final call on if this is good or bad until then. However they have talked about communal benifits for working with guild members. To me that will be the new loyalty. from the early talk it sounds like advancing guild level, for lack of a better term atm, will require working with guildmates not just playing solo while repping a guild(not ruling it out but will likely be minimal) this will foster a sense of community within each guild. hopefully this will coerce the individual to favor a couple guilds versus flitter across several looking to leech from a high profile guild.

    to me the system does seem like it will work out for the better. Guild leaders and devotes may be concerned now but like i said its just the bombshell without the backup of the other systems info to see how it will work.

    unlike the steam groups i am confident arenanet will have things in place to foster the same sense of community in guilds that they are shooting for server wide.

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